Earlier this afternoon, Dexter345 tipped us on the strange fact that this horrid-looking Wiimote from Nyko took home the CES award for Best of Show. In true Dtoid fashion, this led to an email thread a mile long, throughout the course of which we discussed videogame controllers in general.
Which ones do we love? Which ones do we hate? How does Dexter like having a torrent of nonsense destroy his inbox for the day? How would YOU like it? Hit the jump to find out.
The above Nyko Wiimote is awarded CES 2009’s Best of Show. Discuss!
Nick Chester
Two things on this. One, the remote is actually pretty nice. Looks a bit off, but it feels good and is responsive. But two, I agree that it’s sad, and I was talking to Dale about this. If the best piece of videogaming tech to come out of the show was THAT, that’s an indication of how weak the show was in terms of gaming. Imagine how we felt having to cover it!
Dale North
Yeah, there’s nothing awful about it. It’s a controller.
Awful is the Xbox 360 controller we use daily.
TopherCantler
This man speaks the truth.
Nick Chester
Outside of the d-pad, there’s nothing wrong with the Xbox 360 controller. The analog stick placement is more comfortable (and feels tighter) than the Dual Shock, and I’m not a huge fan of the R2/L2 triggers on Sony’s new controller. Don’t hate on the entire controller because you can’t play a 10-year-old game on it that was designed for the D-pad, son.
Dale North
Motherfucker… I’ve had enough of you!
d-pad? more like d-bag!
Topher Cantler
The face buttons fail, too. And no, the analog stick placement is not as good as the PS3 controller.
Dexter345
Just because the analog stick is where you would want the D-pad doesn’t mean it’s placed poorly. It just means you prefer your 2D fighters and shooters over first-person shooters. I’m with Nick, the only complaint I have about the standard 360 controller is the D-pad. Perhaps I should have worded the original title better like, “That awful looking Nyko Wiimote…”
Topher Cantler
Could be. I just think it’s designed with nothing but FPSs in mind and sacrifices every other kind of game in the process, whereas the PS3’s stick setup is suitable for a wider variety of gameplay. It doesn’t suck to play an FPS with a PS3 controller, but it does suck to play a lot of other stuff with a 360 controller. Not just because of the shitty Dpad either. Beautiful Katamari, for example. I’m sure I’d enjoy Geometry Wars a lot more with a PS3 controller, too.
Anyway, it’s all personal preference. Myself, I’ve never played a game with a PS2 or PS3 controller and said “Man, this would be so much better with a 360 controller.” But I say the opposite quite often.
Chad Concelmo
I have talked about this with Topher, but I am not a fan of rounded face buttons. I love flat ones (i.e the Super NES controller). They are SO much more comfortable and easy to press. 🙂
Topher Cantler
The 360 controller seems a bit too preoccupied with looking cool, which it admittedly does, but it gives up some usability because of it. I don’t spend a lot of time admiring my controllers for their appearance, I just need it to work.
It’s definitely the most comfortable controller out there to hold in your hands, I’ll give it that. And I do prefer the triggers way over the stupid L2 and R2 whatchacallums that Sony’s using now.
Adam Dork
I hate 360 controllers cause they are the only ones that don’t last. I just wrote a blog about how I have been through SIX 360 controllers (okay four, two were stolen by Halo3 kids) but no other system I had troubles with and I even used my SuperNES controller as a nunchuck against the wooden part of the couch. It broke and still works to this day…
Jonathan Ross
That is true, I had a 360 controller completely die on me out of nowhere, and I hadn’t even used it that much.
This shit with controllers costing as much or more than actual games needs to stop.
Nick Chester
I like how the analog sticks are off-set; it makes more sense in terms of how my hands work. I’m not uncomfortable with the PS3 controller, but the analog sticks are placed down and in the center of the controller, which doesn’t make much sense. I do love the Dual Shock controller, so don’t get me wrong. I just don’t think there’s too much wrong with the 360 one, outside of the d-pad. I don’t mind the round buttons, and if I’m not mistaken, the SNES controller had two concave buttons (Y and X) and rounded buttons (B and A) … never flat ones. Granted, they’re not as pronounced as the 360 controller, but flat is not a word to describe them.
This reminds me, Dale and I were talking that we want to do a “hammer smash” test on every gaming controller for Destructoid.
Dexter345
I remember X-Play doing something similar with the actual consoles during the last generation. PS2 broke almost immediately, GameCube took a thrashing before it stopped working. I think it’d be a neat feature.
Samit Sarkar
I was always worried about PS3 controllers dying, since they don’t have a user-replaceable battery, but mine have never given me any issues, and the battery life is great (especially now that they have an option to automatically turn them off after a period of inactivity).
As for the PS3/360 controller argument, I personally like the DualShock’s analog stick placement better, and I highly prefer its face buttons to the 360’s rounded ones. (The PS3’s buttons are only slightly concave.)
Adam Dork
Not to pull the fanboy card but isn’t there a website that smashes all sorts of stuff and I believe Nintendo’s garbage lasts and takes the most beating.
Chad Concelmo
Yeah, Nick, two were concave and two were convex. I guess I didn’t mean perfectly flat. I just don’t like them too round (like the Xbox 360 controller). To me, the DualShock and SNES face buttons are perfect. 🙂
Dexter345
Oh snap, do I get to correct Samit? Don’t you mean that the PS3’s face buttons are slightly convex?
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Nice catch!
Topher Cantler
Nintendo’s hardware is always good for a beating. Go to the Nintendo World headquarters in New York and check out the Gameboy that took a mortar shell in Iraq and is still running Tetris. I have an NES that was manufatured in 1987 that still works like a fuckin’ champ, controllers and zapper included. More than I can say for my 4th Genesis.
Also, Genesis controllers are the worst in terms of lifespan. I don’t know anybody who still has the originals in working condition.
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, my brother and I always took good care of our stuff, and we still went through a number of them. Unfortunately, since we were so poor, we could only get third-party stuff like Mad Catz… 🙁
Brad Rice
*raises hand*
Adam Dork
I believe my Genesis (3 and 6 button) still work. Just my Genesis system doesn’t work cause I REALLY want to play General Chaos!
Topher Cantler
Yeah, it’s not a matter of taking care of them or not, they just die. I take super good care of all my stuff (31 year-old Atari 2600 still works like new) and Genesis controllers are just one of those things.
Dyson
i have an original genesis controller, but it isn’t the one i had as a teen. those broke.
Topher Cantler
I’m not sure why it is, exactly. Something they used was shitty. I have 5 Genesis controllers and none of them are the ones that came with any of the systems.
Nick Chester
Genesis controllers were clunky and rattling bullshit. I also hated the Dreamcast controller with a passion, but I have a feeling that’s going to get me some heat…
Topher Cantler
Nah. Love-hate. Best components ever, wrapped in a weird, uncomfortable … shapey thing. It’s like the opposite of a 360 controller.
Dyson
I didn’t like the face buttons or the analog on that one, and the shape was werid, but my all time least fave is the n64 controller. worst one ever made.
Topher Cantler
I think I’d have to agree with that.
Nick Chester
The N64 controller was great for Super Mario 64. And Mario Kart 64. And Mario Party. And other games with “Mario” in the title.
Chad Concelmo
I think the worst controller of all time is the original Xbox’s. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
Topher Cantler
True, that one was pretty fucking bad. I still think Atari’s Jaguar controller takes the taco.
Dyson
at least they replaced the shitty first one with a new one. n64 was still bad, even for games that had mario in the title. jaguar was so fail. mutherfucker was an coleco controller with an analog on it, which as i’m writing this i realize theere were exactly the same.
Jonathan Ross
This should be a Dtoid Discusses Guest Starring Dexter
Topher Cantler
I think this should be a Dtoid discusses starring Dexter, and that we should do this regularly, rotating a random community member into the discussion every time. That would be fun.
Conrad Zimmerman
We were just talking about this, actually. I’m about to reboot Dtoid Discusses this next week, actually so it’s excellent timing. Expect an e-mail about this shortly.
Adam Dork
At the time I really enjoyed Turok on the N64!
Hamza Aziz
Wow, I was just about to suggest this whole convo for front page. Sweet.
And to add to this whole convo, I’m exactly with Nick here. The PS3 controller is annoying and the Xbox 360 is just fine how it is, minus the D-pad.
Samit Sarkar
The N64 controller was especially awful for sports games. Trying to play Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater on that damn thing was a nightmare.
Chad Concelmo
DualShock 4 life!
Also, I agree with you, Topher: the Jaguar is BY FAR the worst of all time. Eek! It scares me just thinking about it!
Jonathan Ross
All this talk of controllers and no one has talked about this yet?? Has anyone even used it before?
Hamza Aziz
Fuck you, Ross. Steel Battalion is awesome. I played the shit out of that game.
Jonathan Ross
See, I didn’t know if it was bad or good because you’re the first person I’ve known who has ever actually played it. I thought it looked cool, but I think I would have gotten too confused.
Hamza Aziz
It takes a bit to get the hang of. Hell, I wouldn’t be able to play it straight away if I played it now. You seriously gotta read the instruction manual.
Topher Cantler
Since we’re posting this, I’ll ask a question we tackled on RFGO last year that was fun.
What’s your perfect controller? If you could take the parts from anything out there and put them together to make your ultimate fap-pad, what would it be?
Mine would be some bastard frankenstein that could never be made. A Saturn controller, with the Dpad from a Dreamcast controller, the analog sticks from a Dualshock 3, and the triggers from a 360 controller. With a VMU in it. Bring back the magic, baby.
Dale North
Saturn pad, baby. At CES, talking with capcom, the saturn pad was the inspiration for the Street Fighter IV pads. Why? Because they’re the best. Its like an upgrade of the 6-button Saturn, the second finest controller ever.
Chad Concelmo
Perfect controller:
D-pad from SNES controller. Face buttons from SNES controller. Shoulder buttons from SNES controller. <3
Samit Sarkar
The SNES shoulder buttons sucked.
Topher Cantler
BLASPHEMY!
Chad Concelmo
Yeah. Serious blasphemy. :O
Grim
I agree, the SNES controller is the best. I do love the 360 controller, but their sides split too easily; I have already gone through two from raging about DoA4 or something.
Dexter345
While the N64 controller is stupidly designed in hindsight, I never had any complaints about it at the time. People say, “What if you want to hit the L-button or the D-pad,” all the time, but come on, it’s not like (most) developers are that stupid. Nobody ever mapped anything important to those two things, specifically because they were unreachable. Aside from the baffling three-prong idea, I remember holding the N64 for the first time and thinking, “This fits in my hand perfectly.” I had never felt such ergonomics before.
On that topic, I had a friend in high school who held the thing in what looked like the most awkward way possible. He held the middle prong with his right hand, using the analog stick with his right thumb. He then held his left hand over the top of it so his thumb could hit the D-pad, his palm could hit the L button, and his index and middle fingers could hit A, B, and the C buttons.
Regarding my perfect controller, I really think it would just be a 360 controller with an SNES D-pad. I suppose I wouldn’t mind slightly longer handles, a la the N64 controller. While I’m imagining this Frankencontroller, I really liked how the analog triggers on the GameCube controller had a final, digital click to ’em. Let’s stick that in there too.
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, but triggers need to be analog — otherwise, they might as well just be buttons — which is why the GameCube’s controller was dumb. They felt nice, but from what I understand, the triggers on it were digital.
Dexter345
I’m almost positive the triggers on the GameCube controller were analog. I can’t think of any particular examples right now, but I have a feeling that they were. Do I have to go home and go through my ‘Cube collection until I find an instance of analog triggers now?
Hamza Aziz
I forget the diff, but in something like Melee, the harder your pressed the triggers, the bigger your shield would be. Isn’t that analog?
Topher Cantler
The Gamecube controller’s triggers were analog, until you got to the end of a press, and they were digital. That is to say, they were analog triggers unless you pushed them all the way down. Nice idea, but it never worked for me. I fucking hated those things.
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, that’s analog…and if that’s true, then I’m mistaken. But the SNES shoulder buttons were still not good. I dislike the Xbox 360 bumpers more, but I just didn’t like the SNES ones for some reason.
Topher Cantler
They were analog and digital together in one button. It was stupid. And you didn’t like the SNES shoulder buttons because you are crazy. And wrong.
Samit Sarkar
I also haven’t held an SNES controller in nearly 15 years, so it could just be anti-retro goggles.
Jonathan Ross
I love the SNES controller, but I had trouble with the L shoulder button on it, although to be fair I have trouble with it on pretty much every controller. On the SNES one I would reach over with my right hand because I would lose in Street Fighter otherwise.
Dexter345
The only thing that was inherently stupid about putting analog and digital together in one button was that it provided lazy developers one of the worst controller setups when trying to make multiplatform games that had functions for all four PS2 shoulder buttons. They then would map one function to the analog part and one to the digital, which you can’t hit without first hitting the analog part!
I guess another complaint I could make about them is that they pressed downward linearly, rather than the hinged motion of the 360’s triggers.
Topher Cantler
You know, come to think of it Dexter, that’s probably what I hated most about them. Not only did they have that concave shape to them, (which was supposed to make them comfortable and form-fitting but ended up lowering response time), they went INTO the controller like toast into a toaster. There was nothing fast or responsive about them at all.
Dyson
I like the GC controllers, except for the wee d-pad. The issue Topher mention never really stuck out to me because I think only played non-ports. Could be wrong, but I don’t recall even noticing that issue.
You are a weird guy, Samit. By process of elimination, I only see love for Sony controllers? Dualshock2 has my vote for awesome, but the SIXAXIS/DS3 is bad, bad, bad. Those L-R triggers are crap and the analogs are way loose. SNES can go both ways, but the 360 bumpers are pretty rad, I must say.
Samit Sarkar
The SIXAXIS/DS3 L2 and R2 triggers are, indeed, fail…but otherwise, I love the DualShock design. Still, the Xbox 360 controller is probably the most comfortable/ergonomic controller ever made — I just prefer both my analog sticks at the same height, my D-pad to be functional, and my face buttons to not be ridiculously convex.
Also, the SNES D-pad >>> all other D-pads, even Sony D-pads.
There, I think I’ve said enough to erase any suspicions of fanboyism.
Topher Cantler
Too bad the post is already live. 🙂
Samit Sarkar
Great, now the last message in the front page post is Dyson making me look like a fanboy.
Topher Cantler
No, now the last post is you saying that Dyson made you look like a fanboy.
How about you, Dtoid?
